Preparation:
1. Thursday (10/7) & Friday (10/8): Charles Olson's biography & themes (film & lecture).
Additional terms:
Polis: (from Greek) a city, a city-state and also citizenship and body of citizens.
Maximus: "Maximus" is a persona invented by Olson in the winter of '49-'50. The persona has two major sources: Carl Jung's archetypal figure "homo maximus" (greatest man/original man) and Maximus of Tyre, a second century A.D. Greek philosopher, whom Olson was interested in primarily because he was rooted in a city, Tyre, that Olson regarded as linked to Gloucester and because he moved out from that center to explore. (Some of this information comes from A Guide to The Maximus Poems by George F. Butterick.)
2. Friday (10/8) through class time Wednesday (10/13): Read, print out, and take active reader notes on the following poems from The Maximus Poems:
Maximus, to Himself
I, Maximus of Gloucester, to You
Maximus, to Gloucester: Letter 2
The Songs of Maximus: Song 1
The Songs of Maximus: Song 2
Maximus to Gloucester, Letter 27 [Withheld]
[For additional preparation you might listen to a discussion of "Maximus to Gloucester, Letter 27 [Withheld]" here.]
Also read, print, and take notes on the following essay (an essay which changed how a great many people look at poetry) by Charles Olson:
Projective Verse
3. Wednesday (10/13) bring print out of poems and notes to class. Participate in student led class discussion.
4. Wednesday (10/13) through pumpkin time Friday (10/15) post thoughtful, insightful, exploratory response(s) in the comment box. Extend the discussion. Respond to peers. Offer new insights. Engage with the poems and each other. (You might also respond to some of what has been written by Malden High School students here.) Note: Effective responses will likely be at (or longer than) Blogger's 4,000+ character maximum for comments.
Thanks to Mr. Ryan Gallagher for the Poetry Foundation links that will help the school save some paper.
Through our exploration of Charles Olson I have become familiar with the poet (among other things) in a way that is general but also very specific. Although he is well known in his own right, part of what draws me to Olson is his deep connection to Gloucester. Olson placed great emphasis on place, and saw value in recognizing each individuals specific relationship to their home. Olson's home was Gloucester and while it intrigues me to read about my town through his eyes, I am also interested in the character Maximus that Olson creates in his poems. In the notes on the blog it is explained that Maximus represents a sot of “original man”, that is, a universal prototype for man. This everyman is one of Olson's way of emphasizing the importance of being connected to place. In class, we discussed the poem I, Maximus of Gloucester, to You. More specifically we talked about the first stanza, in which Olson writes “Off-shore, by islands hidden in the blood/jewels & miracles, I, Maximus/a hot metal from boiling water, tell you/what is a lance, who obeys the figures of/the present dance.” In this Maximus literally becomes the earth, for the islands are within his blood. We realized that although Olson is connected to Gloucester, the everyman is connected only to location. For each individual Maximus is different. The essence of this connection to place I believe is pointed out in Maximus to Gloucester, Letter 27 [withheld] in which Olson writes “I have this sense/that I am one with my skin/ Plus this-plus this:/that forever the geography/which leans in/on me I compell/backwards I compell Gloucester/to yield, to/change/Polis/is this.” Maximus has found his identity, through geography. One of the most prominent themes of the class this year is the search for identity and what leads us to it. For Invisible Man, it was race. For Jane Eyre, it was morality. For Charles Olson as Maximus it seems to be geography. It does not seem that this is something that Maximus chooses however. When reading the lines “which leans in/on me” it felt like geography was something overpowering and unavoidable. This raises questions about Olson himself. Is he implying that geography is something we should embrace because it is unavoidable?
ReplyDeleteContinuing with the idea of identity in these poems, I was interested in a line frequently brought up by the students at Malden High. In Letter 27 Olson writes “An American is a complex of occasions, themselves a geometry of spatial nature.” The first time I read this I will admit that I dismissed it simply as a concept too difficult to breach alone. However, after reading it over and looking at other student's responses the line makes more sense. Olson is talking about the complexity of Americans and also through using the singular form talking about himself as well. We can perhaps infer that because Olson is writing from the viewpoint of Maximus and in this poem Maximus is Gloucester, that Olson is also pointing out the complexity of place. Gloucester certainly is not a one dimension city. But why does Olson as Gloucester to change? (“ backwards I compell Gloucester to yield, to change”) Perhaps it is the loss of senses pointed out in Song 1. Olson is urging Gloucester to fight the invasion of our eyes and ears and hearing. To me though it seems a futile desire. Gloucester is changing, and changing with the way of the rest of America. Although we are an island, we cannot cut ourselves off from the rest of our nation. Even at times when we want to (such as during the pregnancy scandal), America still penetrates our community. We must recognize this and still value our city. Following along with one of Olson's contradictions, we need to value our community and our city but we cannot wish it to be a utopia which it is obviously not. Instead, we need to learn how to tie ourselves into our Ward despite it's imperfections.
My favorite of the selected poems we were told to read and take active notes on was “Maximus to Gloucester, Letter 2”. There is a lot of Gloucester references in this poem, I actually feel like this one connects to the city of Gloucester the most because Olson tells the stories of a couple individuals that really personify what Gloucester is. The poem runs like a typical story, beginning scene setting, escalating conflict, climax, and then ending. In the beginning, he depicts a scene of (what I think) is Gloucester in winter time. There’s usage of words that relate to light vs. dark, black vs. white: “the light does go one way/ toward the post office,/and quite another way down to Main Street”. He talks about various houses, the Library, Post Office, and a couple other familiar Gloucester places we know of. What Olson is doing here is simply setting the scene of what Gloucester is. After this, he begins to describe how Gloucester really is a fishing community and how the life of a fisherman is incredibly dangerous.
ReplyDeleteHe begins to escalate the level strength, power, and ferocity of the ocean in two stories. The first anecdote I would assume is about Howard Blackburn, “and the hands he’d purposely allowed to freeze to the oars”. This begins to show how intense life on the ocean can be during the wintertime. The second story tells of a man who sliced his head on a bollard while fishing, “And he took off his hat to show me,/ how it is all skin where his skull was,/ too much of a hole for even the newest metal/ to cover”. This is another example of the dangers of commercial fishing.
Olson now arrives at his climax, a story about a man who rescued two men from off of Eastern Point. In this section, Olson really utilizes the themes of the body and weather to show power, “he hauled”, “his muscle as big as his voice”, “blizzard”, “the sea so big/ it had turned the Lily Pond/ into an arm of itself”. The vocabulary used in this section of the poem is really strong and meaningful, it hits you really hard. This man worked tirelessly to save these two stranded men and despite all this, he managed to save their boats as well as them, “the wild thing was, he made the vessel, three miles, and fetched her,/ found that vessel in all that weather, with his fellow dead weight/ on him.”
After the climax, there is a bit of a lull. Olson talks about cream and milk and cups of tea, which when I think of these things, they are very calming objects. Olson is now bringing the reader back down from their heightened senses from the rescue scene. The last scene is about a man on the Fort and Maximus staring at a boat, “and eyed (with a like eye) a curious ship”. This ship is given quite an ugly description, “She had raked mast, and they were unstepped,/ fitted loose in her deck, like a neck in a collar.” This almost makes me feel sad for the boat, it seems like it had a rough life. Then the man says, “I’ll own her, one day” and this at first made me wonder. Why would this man want this old and probably decrepit schooner? But the last section made me understand: “While she stares, out of her painted face,/ no matter the deathly mu-sick, the demand/ will arouse/ some of these men and women.” To me these last lines are saying, yes, the ocean is rough and tough, look what it did to the schooner, but these men have spent their lifetime on the ocean love it so much that they can’t stay away despite the dangers. I noticed that the ending is right back where the beginning was, a calm snowy winter in Gloucester.
Hilary E
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While reading the depiction of Gloucester presented by Maximus I’ve become aware of Charles Olsen’s love for my city and through his implications and vagueness I’ve stumbled upon ideas about original thought and intelligence. I first realized this in “The Songs of Maximus: Song 1” and “The Songs of Maximus: Song 2” and after rereading the other poems I found many other cases that support this theory.
In song 1 Olsen states “And words, words, words/all over everything/ No eyes or ears left/ to do their own doing”. In this he is saying that people lack the ability to use their own senses to form an original thought when one is constantly being provided for them. It connects back with the lines from “I, Maximus of Gloucester, to You” where he says “where shall you listen/when all is become billboards, when, all, even silence, is spray–gunned?” A stronger statement comes later when he states “o kill kill kill kill kill/ those/ who advertise you out”. Olsen is clearly trying to express his feelings that people are losing their individuality and you should down out the ideas of others. Lastly in Song 2 the lines say “how can we go anywhere,/even cross town” This gives off the implication that people are stuck. When he later says “how get out of anywhere( the bodies/ all buried/ in shallow graves?” we know that he means people are stuck in the mindset of the public; devoid of any idea of their own.
Even his vagueness in writing is important to his message. If he came out and stated his theory, he would act as a hypocrite in saying “don’t listen to everything people say, but understand what I say as true”. However in the way he presents the ideas it comes to people as a realization of their own a type of “original thought”. Olsen is very creative and insightful, and his talent which can be recognized through “The Maximus Poems” express his ideas of the relationship between people and original thought.
Andrew Mizzoni
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Proceeding the discussions of Charles Olson I find myself with an artistic appreciation for the man. However, I feel that some of his motives and beliefs I do not fully agree with. In song one I greatly appreciated the message that he is trying to stretch as well as the paradox that he includes. I greatly feel that he is describing someone or something that is just full of useless meaning. The end line with the Grease lulled streetcars adds perfectly to the beginning of the poem. His use of paradox at the end of the criticism works perfectly. I feel that his best traits of him s how he connects nature to human nature. Using past history is a great method for poetry and Gloucester is the perfect subject. His Maximus poems to Gloucester show is strong connection to what he enjoys and feels about the city. I don’t not agree with however his opinionated responses to Gloucester because of his situation. He is not a native of Gloucester and though he may have spent the summer there as a kid he was not always a resident. I feel that he connected too much politically to Gloucester. His beliefs with Gloucester and change I feel were not correct. Change is always apt to occur and you can’t change that. Olson needs to stick more with Gloucester and its beauty than how it is politically. His poems to Gloucester reflect greatly with his isolation. I feel that he was an isolationist by the way some of his poems translate. I motioned this in class but did not know how to fully explain or prove it but I feel that Olson was self-conscious. My sources are that growing up as tall he was he must have felt different from everyone else. I feel that he may have been involved with politics but because of his attitude I feel that he did not belong. With poetry he could express himself better and connect himself to things that he could not connect to literally. Lastly I believed that Olson’s one-sided attitude was fully based off of his insecurities with his outside life.
Kelly
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When talking about Charles Olson, I don’t want to mention only one poem that caught me poetically, but rather all the poems that caught me thematically. Charles Olson seemed to have a favoritism in the usage of colors in his poetry, mainly black and gold (as we discussed in class), but I do want to go into further detail on his color choices. In the poem I, Maximus of Gloucester, to you, he focused on the colors black and gold, as I’ve previously stated, and used the choices wisely. I feel as though when he describes situations with colors, he is saying that whatever the scenario is, it’s going to remain in your memories for the rest of your life and its journey it goes on . “When, on the hill, over the water where she who used to sing, when the water glowed, black, gold, the tide outward, at evening.” This part of the poem indicates how he remembers beautiful things like a beautiful song that someone once sang, and how it reminded him of something even as elegant as gold. Yet, he mentions black to portray the present and how what used to be is now gone, like the water moving out at low tide.
In another poem, “Maximus to Gloucester: letter two”, he demonstrates more color connections and talks about how they work in a different situation. “Coming from the sea, up Middle, it is more white, very white as it passes the grey of the Unitarian church. But at Pleasant Street, it is abruptly black”. Now Charlie is talking about how one road or path that you walk along on your journey of life, and how it begins white and progressively darkens into a gray hue. Then suddenly an event happens where you are halted and are in a state of darkness, with no idea on how to move forward with your mission in life. He does a good job sneaking in his feelings about colors and surely got me pondering my own thoughts of what my life would look like according to colors.
Charles Olson is a man that is deeply emotionally connected to his home. In class, we explored the idea that our home is a part of our physical beings. How much of our identity is influenced by our environment? We see a reflection of Olson’s love and respect for Gloucester in his poems and writings. In Maximus, to Gloucester: Letter 2 Olson focuses more on the description of his surroundings then he does in his other poems.
ReplyDeleteLetter 2 first struck me as interesting in the first line. Olson uses an incomplete sentence to lay out the poem right from the beginning. “who can tell another how to manage the swimming?” was a line that triggered a reaction in me that I didn’t think was possible. We live in Gloucester, and we don’t think twice about the ability to swim. It is just a natural instinct that we take for granted. This is almost true for every aspect of Gloucester itself. The “swimming” represents Gloucester and all that it entails. Olson is almost asking how he could possibly give someone an idea of what the town is all about, because it is so vast. Olson also introduces the idea that people don’t change, they simply reveal more about themselves as time goes on.
The next segment of the poem focuses on the revealing of secrets. The “light” which he speaks of is the light shining from the lighthouse. It travels along Gloucester, and exposes different secrets and “hidden cities”. The light reveals our sins, our deep and dark secrets. Olson then quickly jumps to reference Howard Blackburn. His heroic journey, his history, and his legacy are enough for Olson to toast to. This personifies the character and spirit of Gloucester.
I admired Olson’s abstract way of giving the reader a tour of Gloucester. I’m sure that it has much more meaning to all of us because we call Gloucester our home, but the way he crafted the poem to convey what he thought was the most important details was brilliant. One student from Malden, Alex Math, stated that Olson “does not use any superfluous words, or employ many literary devices.” Students that do not have the “home field advantage” were able to appreciate Gloucester solely based off of Olson’s straight up description in his work. I understand Olson’s admiration for Gloucester, and I think he did a beautiful job capturing the city’s spirit.
Throughout all of Charles Olson’s poems I believe there was a central theme of isolation. Charles Olson wrote in a way that made him seen isolated from the rest of the world, especially Gloucester. Because he was not writing his poems about Gloucester when he was actually in Gloucester, it was always as if he was looking into Gloucester, trying and wanting to be a part of it. He talks of Gloucester as if it is a distant past and his memories are the only things he has left of it. This theme of isolation is seen more specifically in the poem Maximus, to himself. In this poem he focuses on how he is an outcast in a town that grew up together and all know each other. When he says “and the single is not easily known” he is referring to the fact that he is considered an outcast in Gloucester because he did not grow up there and share his life with the people that live there. In the poem he is referring to how he sees how people in Gloucester act daily and wonders why he can not act that way if he knows that’s the way he should act. Another theme that is clearly seen throughout this poem is identity. The poet is constantly trying to figure out who and what he should be in his life. Olson has had multiple jobs and lived multiple places in his life but has never been able to find what is right for him. Olson constantly questions how he should relate himself to others and is unsure of what kind of life he should lead. Olson ends the poem with almost a question to himself of what he should do next with his life when he says “It is undone business I speak of, this morning, with the sea stretching out from my feet.”
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Though Charles Olson is not originally from Gloucester, he is able to describe it as someone who has lived there their whole life. In his poems he is able to cause the readers such strong emotions from a state of anger and hate to a state of happiness. Though in some cases Olson describes Gloucester in a negative light such as when he says, “(O Gloucester-man,/ weave/ your birds and fingers/ new, your roof- tops,/ clean shit upon racks/ sunned on...”(I, Maximus of Gloucester, To You. Charles Olson.) This is more to do with grabbing the readers attention. It seems that he does this in order to infuriate the reader to prove him wrong that Gloucester truly is a great place. The fact is that Olson already knows this to the core of his being, but many people he knew took Gloucester for granted and to wanted to ignite that once cool flame in their hearts for Gloucester so that they protect their beloved city. Olson understands that though the people of Gloucester will change there is a way to keep Gloucester a Polis and to keep it protected and allow it to remain the city it was then. Other times Charles Olson could leave a reader in a state of happiness. This is due to the fact that Olson wrote many things that praised Gloucester because for the most part he considered this his home. In many of his works he claims Gloucester as his city. This is not due to the fact that he thought himself to be better the citizens, but because he saw himself as an outsider and I believe that his poetry is the way that he allowed himself to believe that he did belong to the community. For the most part he was a true member of the Gloucester community because he knew so much more of the history of Gloucester than the average citizen of Gloucester and he advocated so much to keep historical places safe in Gloucester. The fact is that Olson loved Gloucester and this is shown in Maximus to Gloucester, Letter 27, when he says, “...backwards I compel Gloucester/ to yield, to/ change/ Polis/ is this.” In these few simple lines he is able to compel the fact that he loved Gloucester and that people should not change it because to him, though his opinion is humble, Gloucester was perfect just the way it was.
In the discussion lead by, Elizabeth, the use of birds in Olson’s poem, “I, Maximus of Gloucester, to You”, was mentioned. I thought that this was interesting because when I first read the poem I did not actually pick up on the various mentions of bird because I had focused more on the idea of Olson thinking of Gloucester as a jewel. However by going back and rereading the poem the idea of Gloucester being a bird is quite original. In a way Olson is right Gloucester is a bird. People have “flown” here from many places laying their “twigs” around Gloucester creating a nest that is almost impossible to break. In a way this allowed for Gloucester to become a polis because for awhile people were so heavily invested in the community of Gloucester. On the other hand the bird also represents the idea of people leaving the city. To Olson, Gloucester being a “bird’s nest” was in fact a double edge sword. Olson played with both of these ideas in his poem using birds some birds that carried items in to make themselves a better nest while others flew away in search of something better.
J.Linsky
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In many of his poems and letters, Olson refers back to his memories. He does this better to connect himself with Gloucester. Olson does this because the simplicity of his memories allow for people to connect to him and bring up similar memories. Olson has the readers unconsciously bring these memories up, so that they realize how great Gloucester is and how much they truly respect and love Gloucester. With these memories fresh, Olson can now better convey his reasons as to why Gloucester must remain the same. He can also convey the thought that though Gloucester is really simple why would as a person would you want to bring Gloucester into the mainstream world. This in turn would ruin Gloucester’s steadfast community. Also this line of thought relates back to the idea that Gloucester is a jewel because of how precious it is. Since it is a jewel people would want to keep it because people like to hold onto valuable items, so by describing Gloucester as a jewel everyone will want to keep Gloucester the way it is to keep it at its most valuable. Also it plays on the idea of Gloucester being a homey place because Olson only brings up memories of Gloucester instead of Worcester where he was actually born and spent most of his childhood years there. This is to show that even though he is an outsider he wants so much to be part of the community. Olson does this so people realize how great and precious Gloucester is and then they realize that they must preserve Gloucester.
Our exploration into poetry and Charles Olson's character has given me great insight into his character and surroundings. We never can know exactly what he was trying to show but I feel in our discussions we at least explored the possibilities. Some of our opinions sometimes came from an overall idea about Olson rather than his poems directly. I feel our analysis of his poems and him were the strongest when we took the evidence strait from the text. My greatest understanding of Olson's ideas and persona came from the poem "Maximus, to himself". It was obvious that it was a poem about how he thinks of himself and his identity but what made this stand out was his understanding of others and of his environment. He says, "I note in others, makes more sense than my own distances." trying to say that he understands others more than himself. We talked about how Olson believed in mercantilism and was a politician and had an idea of how the world should be. I feel in the poem he is telling others what to be and understands them but doesn't know who he is and is confused on how to act. This all has to do with how he is trying to portray himself as a person uncomfortable with his environment. He says,"that we grow up many And the single is not easily known," showing that we sometimes grow up with a sense of other people but ourself is not easily found. He might have felt this awkwardness that everyone feels at some situation with his tall stature and this sense of an unfinished identity. Olson talks again about his identity telling, "But the stem of me, this I took from their welcome, or their rejection, of me" which shows that in forming his identity he took ideas of others about himself. His identity was shaped from the environment and the people around him because he formed his identity by rejecting or accepting what society was doing or saying. And when he says, "And my arrogance was neither diminished nor increased," he is trying to show that he was not effected in his opinions. His arrogance is possibly his ideas of others and telling them what to do and how the world should be. These opInions were not changed from outside force about the outside, but to himself he still has unbalanced opinions about who he is. He is still in search of his identity stating, "It is undone business I speak of, this morning, with sea stretching out from my feet" concluding that he still has so much to understand about the world around him and himself. This poem gives great light to the way he feels about his environment and the way he feels about not understanding where he is in understanding his identity. Charles Olson has a great character because he can even question his own being and explore his own arrogance. His poems explains not only his ideas and thoughts but the way he thinks and understands everything. Within every poem we read he makes it personal in some way and you are able to explore his character even when he himself can't identify his own identity.
ReplyDeleteCharles Olson was deeply fixated on Gloucester, and its identity as a polis. He recognized that Gloucester and the people are unique and special as a place. Although he could never truly be part of Gloucester Olson strived to understand it as deeply as he could, the history, people, and culture of the place. Since Olson did live in Gloucester as a summer home, he understood some of the culture, and was not a complete outsider. However he never fully could understand the Gloucester polis as a resident of Gloucester could. In his letter 27 to Gloucester that was withheld, Olson starts out describing childhood memories. He seems to paint a vivid picture that gives the reader a feeling of fondness, like Olson enjoys this memory. Then he moves on and says “It is the imposing of all those antecedent predecessions, the precessions or me, the generation of those facts.” I believe by this Olson is saying that one, or Maximus is defined by the place he was born and raised in. Also his history and where his parents came from. He then also says “I have this sense, that I am one with my skin Plus this—plus this: that forever the geography which leans in on me I compel backwards.” Clearly Olson believes that a person’s environment such as geography defines them as a person, and he is pointing this out to the reader. Also Olson was interested in preserving Gloucester the way it was, he was against urban renewal and that specific type of change. I believe this is what Olson is referencing when he writes “I compel Gloucester to yield, to change Polis is this.” Olson was obsessed with the independent polis that Gloucester was, and saw it being changed by urban renewal. He wrote many letters trying to stop various changes around Gloucester that he believed would modify the polis. Overall I think this poem is focused on how a polis affects an individual, and how a polis is also affected by individuals.
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Olson is a man of meaning. He finds meaning in man-made and natural objects, and he expects others to be able to do the same thing. In fact, based on the tone of some lines of his poetry, it almost angers him that some people do not see the beauty and meaning in the world and appreciate it the way he does. For example, in The Songs of Maximus: Song 1 and The Songs of Maximus: Song 2, Olson criticizes the way that people just accept other people’s ideas to be factual, when in fact they should be thinking for themselves because they do have that ability to. He is looking down at the situation in shame that these people do not understand their full worth and potential as free thinkers. According to these songs, Olson believes fully in the use of all of the senses to tie in together as thoughts in the brain perceiving the object. This is how Olson expects us to feel about an object. He expects us to see the object, understand the object, and then judge based on our own thought process the feelings we get from this object. The same process goes for our actions and the way we react to situations. If we are no longer free thinkers, and the world is influenced wholly by flashy advertisements and “words, words, words,” then how is our society expected to evolve culturally and artistically? This is what upsets Olson the most, is today’s society’s lack of information and free thinking. Olson believes that people are beginning to let the environment and the businessmen run our thoughts and actions. These series of songs are a way of Olson fighting back for what he believes in.
In Song 2, Olson himself admits to becoming sucked into a part of this culture and laziness of thought. He responds in a way sounding hopeless. I feel that the sad and hopeless tone of this poem is a means of sarcasm for Olson. I think that he is in a way saying, “Oh boo hoo we can’t think for ourselves anymore, that’s it we are all done.” He writes this song in somewhat question form so that he is asking the reader, can we really do this? Is it not possible that we can be thinkers individually? The main point is, of course we can! We just have to take a look around and admire the meaning in our day to day lives.
Caroline Bauke
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I know that my class did not cover “Maximus, to Gloucester: Letter 2”, however I happened to notice quite a lot of little detailed nuggets of information hidden within this poem. Copying Mr. Cook’s method of highlighting/listing separate information, I noticed similar patterns within this poem. However I connected “revealed”, “light”, “tried to hide”, “the fact”, “hidden city”, “the doctor knows what the parents don’t know”, “she looks”, “I knew him”, “to cover”, “this sort of eye which later knew”, “eyed”, “she stares”, to variations in illuminating knowledge and concealing knowledge. Charles Olsen uses the sea and light as directions in his poem. It almost seems like the sea is a medium that Charles Olsen uses to direct the poem, like the reader is reading directions indicated by arrows.
I wanted to add that I disagree with Charles Olsen with some of the ideas he expresses in this poem. Charles Olsen says that people do not change. In my opinion people do not change, they grow. Segments of their personality grow or accumulate to dominate their behavior, while other aspects of people’s personalities receive no fuel, no energy to influence a person. In essence, these characteristics of a person seem to diminish because they no longer grow, but they are always present. People cannot change, I will give Charles Olsen that much, however they can grow into a new personality.
During the past few days in class, a lot of people mentioned how they were disliked Charles Olsen being so possessive about Gloucester, almost like he is a child monopolizing a public play area. I find that this part of his poetry very real, and very necessary to his poetry as a whole. I get the impression that Charles Olsen was an officious character, he knew he wanted to succeed in life so he worked hard to get it. Being a retired politician, that previous career probably promoted his officious nature. Charles Olsen being possessive about Gloucester is perfectly natural because a) he writes naturally, letting his personality shine through his words—giving the reader a chance to see a little bit of what he was like, and b) it is perfectly natural to be possessive about a city, the city, your home city that you love.
Charles Olson was a man of many talents, but after analyzing his poems we can clearly see that socialization was not one of those gifts. As we discussed in class and as Michelle mentioned in her post, many of Olson’s poems give off a sense of isolation and loneliness. He’s looking at Gloucester as an outsider who wants to get in and who wants to feel a sense of acceptance with the town that he loves so much. Throughout his poetry he makes this known, but in none of the poems we read did it seem that he ever found his way in. Olson’s poems never quite explain why he was such an isolated man and why he didn’t have any close relationships that he talked about in his Maximus poems, but in ‘Maximus, to Gloucester: Letter 2.’ when Olson writes “. . . . . tell you? ha! who can tell another how to manage the swimming? he was right: people don’t change. They only stand more revealed. I, likewise,” he is inferring that the people who surround you in your society will be the ones who tell you what to do and who will tell you what is right and if you do the opposite of this so-called ‘right’, you must change to be more ‘normal.’ Olson wants to know who has the right to tell you what to do and I believe he is ultimately referring to all of the people who don’t approve of his pursuit of poetry. Poetry wasn’t considered a successful or smart career path during Charles Olson’s life, as Olson had briefly mentioned in his poems as well, and people looked at him with disdain. Because he chose to take on this career he must not have been smart or least of all useful in society because poetry did nothing to help build up their lives or to make advancements. People wanted Olson to change himself into someone that fit their standards and until he did so they would make sure to keep him out of the loop and because Olson had an extreme love for poetry and because he was so strong-willed he refused to give in to the people and in the end he was isolated from them. For poetry, to Olson, that was definitely a fair price to pay. Because of this I have gained a deep respect for Olson because although at first glance it may seem that he must have been a pathetic, lonely old man, once you look deeper into his situation you begin to realize that there was a cause for him to be so secluded and it was an honorable one at that. Olson also wrote, ‘While she stares, out of her painted face,’ referring to the people that give into the temptations of others so they can fit in. Their painted faces symbolize the figurative mask they use to cover up their real selves from others and instead they use this mask to change them into someone that is accepted by society. As these people went about their lives with this lie upon their shoulders it is likely that Olson stared right back out at them, with a clean face void of any type of masks, and laughed at their foolishness.
ReplyDeleteReading Maximus, to himself, I felt as though this was one poem wherein Olson was speaking more personally. The continuation of an idea almost confessional continually pulls the reader along. While Maximus compares his own dialogues and discussions on ancient texts (once more the rhetorician and historically observant natures of the poet himself are brought up), compares his work as an educator, even, with those whose sharpness “makes more sense than my own distances.” and continues, “The agilities/they show daily/who do the world’s/businesses/And who do nature’s/as I have no sense/I have done either.” So here is a person who, as confirmed by the latter part of the poem, does not find knowing the origin of the winds to be sufficient for increasing his “arrogance,” but whose “undone business,” like the sea, is before him. Likewise, Olson’s business is “undone,” incomplete. Much more of poetry must be written, many more Maximus poems alone for working out who he actually is.
ReplyDeleteThe movement of Letter 27 was something which really drew me in. As Maximus comes “back to the geography of it,” the memories he describes are laid out in more solid, comprehensible structure, and do not stray from their location. There is the structure of progression in the first three stanzas: “the land falling off to the left/where my father shot his scabby golf,” “To the left the land fell to the city,/to the right, it fell to the sea,” “...my first memory/is of a tent spread to feed lobsters/...” We are drawn out of the reverie, reminded that this “is no welter or the forms/of those events. . .” These contribute to who Maximus is. Maximus, as an American, “is a complex of occasions,/themselves a geometry of spacial nature.” Drawing us out is the excitement of the lines, the quickness of Breath indicated by the decay of stanzas. No longer isolated in or traceable to one event, on what alone could the speaker elaborate? Here the form is formed by that of which it speaks.
In class Thursday, Moriah brought up the view that Olson disrespects Gloucester on occasion. I read the tone a bit differently in part 5 of “Maximus of Gloucester, to you.” I found the description of “clean shit upon racks/sunned on” more apt and evoking a familiar image than provoking any other reaction. Part of my reasoning was the construction of that half of offset text. It fell along with the complexity of what the “Gloucester-man/weave[s],” much as the complexity of the extricable surface formed as the “American/braid[s]/with others like [him].”
Michelle, you say that “Because he was not writing his poems about Gloucester when he was actually in Gloucester, it was always as if he was looking into Gloucester, trying and wanting to be a part of it. He talks of Gloucester as if it is a distant past and his memories are the only things he has left of it.” I think that in a way, it is less that the poet is holding onto Gloucester by memories, as these memories play into a complexity, and are inextricable from who he is. Also the possessive tone he uses “our bird, my roofs” and the title Maximus of Gloucester do indicate that there is, at very least, a confidence in his connection with the city. Olson may be writing from a distance, but Maximus, despite this, does not have to be with Olson.
Lynsky, you say that Olson saw himself as an outsider, and recognized his right “a true member of the Gloucester community because he knew so much more of the history of Gloucester than the average citizen of Gloucester.” This makes one think about the paradox that one must be outside to see more clearly the workings of what is inside.
Poetry is not my forte. I just wanted to get that out of the way.
ReplyDeleteNow I have a feeling Mr. Cook is going to disagree with me here, but I’m going to go out on a limb and just say what I feel. I think Charles Olson was a bit disillusioned with Gloucester and it separation from the rest of the world. We discussed Olson’s issues with 128, talking about how it was a means for the rest of the world to attack Gloucester. I have an issue with this though. It is not as if Gloucester was a city in the middle of the jungle isolated from the rest of the world, a culture that is so unique and individual that it is like no other. Gloucester (the city/downtown part) was just a city that was on an ’island’ with one way to the rest of the city/world (and according to Lifetime’s Pregnancy Pact still does). Gloucester was still connected to the rest of the world, people traveled about. They weren’t isolated. The affects of advertising was still present and we know how important this was to Olson. 128 just made it easier to get to places that were already being gone to.
Olsen feels passionately though and that is one thing that you can really see in his poems. Despite the fact that the poems we looked at were about the character Maximus I think we all were thinking a lot about Olson and his opinions. It is hard to read the poems without thinking of Olson.
Andrew, you said that you feel that Olson "connected too much politically to Gloucester. His beliefs with Gloucester and change I feel were not correct. Change is always apt to occur and you can’t change that. Olson needs to stick more with Gloucester and its beauty than how it is politically." I wondered if the beliefs with Gloucester and change with which you disagree would be that it should not change. My thought is that if this were so, that Olson accepted Gloucester as something which would continually alter itself, and admired its beauty, there would be some hypocrisy in that its beauty would be subject to abuse by the allowed alterations. In a way, the change which Olson combats is that which compromises the observable change over the present (his present) city. To admire beauty, one must ascribe some value to it, and to see that beauty replaced is to lose something of value.
ReplyDeleteAs Renee (Malden) asks, "If people didn’t change, why would Olson want Gloucester to be back to the way it was?" I think a few things about this. First of all, if "people" refers to specific people rather than humanity overall, those people are influenced by their environment, and the environment, constantly being changed, would complete the indirect way that people (as in humanity) change over time. And yet, there is still the idea of human nature, which brings me to my second thought, that things as they were cast people into a favorable light, where the disapproval that time later earned people was not yet called-for.
Grant, you posted your comment 2 minutes late. disqualified.
ReplyDeleteBut is the facilitation of something justified because that thing is already being done?
I'd like to continue this discussion about Olson's connection between his identity and the geography of his home. Let's talk about the poem "I, Maximus of Gloucester, to You". I really liked this one. There's the obvious use of birds as symbols, but we'll get to that later. Olson was very careful with his diction in this poem. He uses repetition of words frequently. In the 3rd section, when he is expressing his fears of gloucester losing it's placidity and describing it's natural state, he begins each sentence with a when or a where. "WHERE shall you find it, how, WHERE, WHERE shall you listen/ WHEN all is become billboards, WHEN, all, even silence, is spray gunned?/ WHEN even our bird, my roofs,/ cannot be heard...". He is using these words to really drive home a scene, to show two radically different worlds: natural Gloucester(himself) and the future that he fears Gloucester may be headed towards. One of my favorite parts of this poem was when he talked about love and it's relation to existence. First he says that love is form, and that it cannot exist without important substance. Later he says that "one only loves form/ and form only comes/ into existence when/ the thing is born". I found this quote to be quite confusing at first. It seemed like a roundabout way of saying that love is material and for it to be true, it must exist. I started to understand after I finished the poem. He caps everything off by stating that he loves Gloucester. He says that he brings a feather ( something of form: love) from a place where he can still hear (a natural Gloucester). He says that it flashes more than anything romantic, more than any memory or place. I think that he believes that the substance of this love is something bigger than the place of Gloucester or his memories of it (things that we had noted maybe constituted his love). The substance of this love that he carries and offers is in my mind, the rootedness that he can feel of a place. It's the cohesive that connects his love of the external geography to his identity. What is this cohesive? I'm not sure. I think that this was something that Olson explored heavily in most of his poems. On a slightly unrelated note, this is the only poem that I read titled Maximus OF Gloucester instead of Maximus TO Gloucester. He defends Gloucester in nearly all of the works that I read, but he tries define love in this poem. He is no longer addressing Gloucester, but a vaguer audience, trying to explain the source of his feelings for Gloucester. It becomes evident to me anyway, that the source of his feelings may be more complex than it appears. He gives the reader a bird-like description, concluding that Gloucester is a nest; Gloucester is his nest. Why does he describe the reader as a bird? Maybe because he assumes that the reader like a bird has freedom. Birds are a prevalent symbol of freedom. Maybe Olson assumes that the reader may be open to any home, he or she may be devoted to Gloucester or some other place. What I'm trying to say is that the reader has freedom in their choice of nest. Olson tries to explain what keeps him attached to his own nest. The truth is, I'm not really sure about why he addresses the reader as a bird. This is just my own feeble explanation. I think that it's very important to his message, and though there's no clear cut answer maybe someone can help me out. In your opinion, what's the significance of this strategy by Olson?
ReplyDeleteP.S I wrote this entire entry on my cell phone, while I was traveling on a plane bound for Washington dc. Please excuse me if it was hard to follow at times, chances are that it was.
Frizzy,No it is not justified but I still feel as that Olson over reacted.
ReplyDeleteFrizzy also said something that caught my mind. "Maximus, as an American". Now we know that maximus comes from Greek mythology, and is the ultimate man. From the poems we looked at we never saw an evidence of either (in my opinion). It seems as if we just get the opinion of a regular guy, whichmight be why we think of Olson so much when reading the Maximus Poems
I have to say I was not immediately taken with Olson’s work but having read his essay on Projective verse I find I can at least better understand his style of writing verse. My biggest pet peeve with poetry has always been the people who write poems focusing entirely on making the words rhyme, and fit the meter, or worse, rhyme words with absolutely no sense of rhythm or meter or any sort of focus on the actual structure of the poem. I admire Olson’s effort to escape the confines of traditional poetic structure. The rigid structure imposed by the use of meter often divides up the words in a way that, unless sculpted by the most expert and practiced poets, puts emphasis in the wrong places and results in a disruption in the flow of energy from idea to poet to reader.
ReplyDeleteThere is something of a paradox in the way Olson snubs poetic structure with the intent of putting the focus on the words and ideas he chooses. By abandoning this standard format he is able to take free reign over word choice and choose only the words and phrases which best express his ideas, but he then punctuates and divides these words into a very complex structure which specifically dictates the desired articulation. In his words he “sought to indicate exactly the breath, the pauses, the suspensions even syllables, the juxtoposition even of parts of phrases, which he intends.” In other words, Olson creates extremely specific and complex structure in his poetry by abandoning structural standards. Another interesting contradiction was one we discussed in class. This is the fact that Olson ignores the structural guidelines he himself creates through punctuation, word choice, and line division in his own poetry readings. On one hand it seems he is being hypocritical and putting himself above his own rules. On the other hand, looking back on it you could say that he is actually emphasizing his point; that structure restricts expression and should not be used as a restricting factor in poetry.
A few people mentioned Olson’s focus on commercialism in many of his poems. He is clearly very opinionated in this matter. He sees the beauty of Gloucester as being in its isolation from the rest of the world, and the destruction of this beauty in the presence of change and outside influences coming in. I find irony in this because Gloucester became what it is as a port city, and a center of commerce. In this respect I have to agree with Grant in disagreeing with Olson on his opinion on 128 being a passage for the outside world to invade and encroach on Gloucester’s beauty. Change is what created this beautiful city, and change will continue to shape it, much as we may resent it. Gloucester’s past is apparent everywhere if you look for it. It has not been lost, you just have to take the time to look. Many people don’t realize what makes it such a beautiful city until they leave it, and even more so when they return to it. The history is everywhere, in the buildings and the structure of the city around its diverse landscape. The sense of community that is unique to this town is apparent in the way its people interact. There is a sense of familiarity between the people on the streets that is rooted so deep into the past that even I, as a second generation Gloucester citizen, sometimes feel disconnected from it. Olson is, himself, an outsider. Though he may love this city he is not a part of it in the way only the natives can be.
ReplyDeleteTom M.
ReplyDeleteBlock F
I’m not sure if my post went through, so I’m reposting it just to make sure…
This week, while reviewing some of Charles Olson's most well-known poetry concerning Gloucester, it is easy to make many different assumptions and interpretations. Through his poems, Olson uses many different metaphors to describe his inner feelings, his passion concerning his beloved town that he wishes not to be continuously dissolved by humanity’s inevitable “reign of destruction”. I believe throughout most of his works he speaks of the inevitable destruction that change can enact and how dire the effects are. But what initially started the confusion I had when interpreting some of his works, namely “I, Maximus of Gloucester, to you”, were the often seemingly fragmented contradictions. For instance, as Kelly has already stated. The whole “black gold” reference he made that we discussed in class, as seen in the verse ““When, on the hill, over the water where she who used to sing, when the water glowed, black gold, the tide outward, at evening.” really got me thinking. First of all, by backtracking a bit and trying to understand how Olson uses contradicting thoughts to explain the reality of his theories, it was easier for me to comprehend what he is saying specifically in this poem. I personally believe he is describing how what he has known to be once beautiful has now changed due to humanity’s destruction of Gloucester that he often talks about, and has resulted in something completely different, something he distastes, what he once held with high regard is now gone. From creating this interpretation of the poem, I began to understand Olson’s methods a bit more, especially when we discussed his motives, ways of thinking, and ways of writing in class today. While I still believe that Olson’s poetry, like most poetry is interpretive, there’s a different side to it. First of all, yes, it at time seems like Olson despises change and how it has affected Gloucester in many negative ways over the years. And while I disagree with some of his theories he remains very adamant in, I have to respect them for being based on solid evidence. Gloucester has changed, a lot, and in many ways. However, I believe Olson has neglected in parts to see the progress it has made and how it has adapted into it’s change as most societies tend to do. When I look at Gloucester, I hardly look at it as if it was “shit”. I also do not want to “kill kill kill kill” everyone and everything. Gloucester is a beautiful place no matter what. You can’t destroy inner natural beauty. But that’s just my own theory, and Olson is completely in the right to have developed his own thoughts throughout his great poetry. After all, as stated, Olson does contradict himself a lot in his poems due to the many metaphors and shifting tones. So a connection lies in there somewhere, the middle ground between for and against, if you will. Anyways, sometimes I just find it a bit disconcerting that when we discuss a certain topic or work, we are both like and unlike Olson, unable to appreciate one solid thought of our own and respect the many other perspectives of each other. Olson’s poetry especially, to me, is interpretive, thus creating various perceptions. And like Olson, that’s just something we must accept, view, respect, and discuss further to see each other’s personal view. And maybe then it would be easier to see what Olson is really getting at, and through a different light even. It’s worth a shot.
Since the beginning of summer, we have focused on identity and environment’s impact on it. According to Olson, “people/don’t change. They only stand more/revealed” (Maximus, to Gloucester: Letter 2). Wait, so how does environment impact and shape our identities? Megan answered this by explaining that society dictates what people do and think. People may not change, but societies do. Societies are like bags of fertilizers, and people, plants. As time goes on fertilizers advance from shit to Miracle-Gro; however, do the plants themselves ever truly change? Well, the answer is yes and no. Imagine a field of white roses. One day a strong wind blows a fly native to field of red roses, into this field. The flowers are pollinated and eventually pink roses arise. Gloucester is this field of roses. Although it is “isolated” as an island, people are still coming and going, and with them they bring their culture, with which they pollinate Gloucester’s citizens. So in essence people do not change, but they are introduced to new ideas and with the nature of today’s society, these ideas are essentially forced upon them.
ReplyDeleteOlson reflects this idea of cultural diffusion in his poetry, especially in Maximus, to Gloucester: Letter 2. In this poem, Olson describes cultural diffusion taking place in Gloucester, and reveals his stance upon it. “They hid, or tried to hide, the fact the cargo their ships brought back/was black (the library, too, possibly so founded).” Olson considers the things brought to the island as detrimental to Gloucester. The information they bring with them is not necessarily negative, but the manner it is exposed to them certainly is. In a few of the other poems, we discussed the idea of America being a place where information is forced down people’s throats (billboards, spray-paint, etc.) Olson believes that even in Gloucester, his polis, this is occurring. He uses the light house to represent the light he sees the city in. He associates the Library and ship’s cargo with black to emphasize his disapproval of commercialism grasping his community. Olson also appears slightly ill at ease with the role of the Unitarian church in Gloucester. Here the light is described as grey. Olson most likely respects the church for its roots in Gloucester’s history, but recognizes the ways in which it is deviating from its course. This could also be because of his religious stance. (Does anyone know what Olson’s religion was?) In part 3 of Letter 2 Olson talks about a man “who recently bought the small white house on Lower Middle. “He stood with me one Sunday/and eyed (with a like eye) a curious ship/we’d both come on, tied to the Gas Company wharf./She had raked masts, and they were unstepped,/fitted loose in her deck, like a neck in a collar.”
Olson emphasizes that consumerism (Gas Company) is being exposed to Gloucester residents. While he sees the truth behind the ship, and what it brings to Gloucester, the other man is blind to it. He says “I’ll own her, one day,” which reveals how people are being exposed to things with no care for what they are being exposed to. Previously, Olson had described Middle Street as “very white,” but the light in which he sees Middle Street will soon change. Olson ends Letter 2 believing that Gloucester residents have already abandoned their individuality, and assimilated into society. “While she stares, out of her painted face,/no matter the deathly mu-sick, the demand/will arouse/some of these men and women.” It seems that Olson, an outsider, is the only one who is immune to this assimilation. He must watch his favorite field of flowers change color, and objects to their lack of awareness. While I had originally thought this poem to only be a criticism of American society, Megan’s post opened my eyes to see that it was also a justification of his choice to become a poet.
I’m not really sure what to comment on; for I’m afraid that if I state my opinions again pertaining to Charles Olson’s poems, the same thing that happened in class might result. In class, when people state their own opinions I simply nod and try my best not to judge them for it, or call them out. However in class on Thursday when I stated mine, I felt like I was shut down because people’s own opinions got in the way of them listening to mine. To be perfectly honest, no I don’t like Charles Olson. And like I said in class, I think a great deal of disrespect and almost rudeness is constantly being portrayed in his poetry. I feel like he thinks that he owns Gloucester and can say whatever he pleases about it; while others see this as him wanting to be apart of it. Still, there is a big difference between praising and building up your home town as opposed to shutting it down. Olson’s style of writing does not easily persuade a reader that he admires Gloucester. So therefore I see no point in contributing further to this discussion for again, I’m afraid my ideas will be shut down.
ReplyDeleteI wasn't there on Thursday Moriah but it makes me really sad that you feel that way :( we are all allowed our own opinions, and our English class should be a place where we can discuss and not feel judged by how we feel. Especially with something like poetry which can be perceived in so many different ways by different people.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDelete[My previous post had a few typos. Here I go again...]
ReplyDeleteThank you F-block for listening and responding thoughtfully to my apology letter.
If anyone, who was absent or out of the room on Monday, wants to read the letter let me know; I'll send you a copy.
Finally, I'd like to send along another "thank you" to Moriah for her brave discussion leading on Thursday and for her thoughtful blog post this weekend. Also, thank you, Arica for your affirming follow up.
See you tomorrow.
all the best,
Mr. James Cook
Yes, I realize the subject of self vs. environment has been approached again and again in each blog post, and that I am also roughly one week late with my blog post (ooops….), but I would like to reflect on the subject all the same.
ReplyDeleteOlsen, in many if not all of his Maximus poems, focuses on details concerning the landscape that surrounds his “original man.” Letter 27, for instance, speaks of the character’s childhood in Gloucester, mentioning the “geography of it” on several occasions. At one point he says,” to the left the land fell to the city, to the right, it fell to the sea.” Immediately I was reminded of Invisible Cities, specifically one of the cities described within it, Despina. Said to be a “border city between two deserts”, Despina is isolated from the rest of the world by its surroundings; land on one side, water on the other. Gloucester is also mentioned as being isolated, and that the only means of reaching it by land is a causeway from the outside world, which A Block saw to symbolize 128. It is the equivalent to one of the two deserts that entrap the mythical Despina, the Atlantic serving as the other. While this connection may seem insignificant, it enforces the statements Olsen makes in his poems regarding change and outside influence. Maximus feels so connected to Gloucester because of his childhood; it is how he remembers the city. When it seems to be evolving, he rejects it, saying, “the geography, which leans in, on me I compel, backwards I compel Gloucester, to yield, to change.” Letter 2 also attacks this issue, in one sentence claiming, “they hid, or tried to hide, the fact the cargo their ships brought back, was black.” Both Despina and Gloucester are places of trade, ports where foreigners often visit. The quote seemed to say that the outside influences coming into Gloucester bring/have brought negative change to the city and that we cannot escape them, no matter how hard we try. It is a bold statement, a probable cause being Olsen’s childhood connection to Gloucester; he simply uses Maximus to get his opinions across.
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ReplyDeleteAdrian D.
ReplyDeleteI have to say, going with my opinion, that I do not like Charles Olsen as an artist. I feel as though in some of his poems his love of Gloucester isn’t expressed in the best way. Maybe I’m just not picking up on subtle messages but I feel as though he talks about Gloucester almost as if he knows what’s best for it. I think that some of his poems are borderline rude, particularly in his poem I, Maximus of Gloucester, to You. I know that in class we had a somewhat heated discussion about this and I agreed with Moriah but I didn’t really get to explain why. I think that in I, Maximus of Gloucester, to You, Olsens use of the word “shit” towards the end of the poem brings to mind crude images. There are other words that could have been used to describe the environment that’s being portrayed. Not only is the use of vulgar words that evoke a sense of brutishness present in this poem but Olsen also misspells the word music three times in a row “Mu-sick, mu-sick, mu-sick” and to me, that’s almost pointing out that Gloucester people are un-educated or rather, unintelligent. Maybe I just don’t like Olsens style of writing or maybe I’m forcing myself to see the negative light he’s shinning on the city but this is my opinion. Don’t get me wrong though, I don’t think he’s making fun of the city, I actually think he does like it, but I can see where he just didn’t do a great job of expressing his love of Gloucester. That being said, maybe his portrayal of Gloucester as a slightly brutish and unrefined city is his way of showing his love, maybe that rawness is what makes Gloucester beautiful to him.
*my first post was missing the word beautiful in the last sentence.